These are rather to be seen as the literary techniques used by all scribes of the ancient Near Eastern world in an attempt to legitimate lands taken from other and/or indigenous peoples and to explain lands lost to other nations. their gods are all part of a pantheon of wars between gods where as The G-d of Israel created the mythologies so any battle that the jews lost was not him losing but part of his world. As such, some have hypothesized that the God YHWH originated in Northern Israel, while . According to this fictional account, Moloch gives a speech at . In terms of the population at large, some Israelites and Canaanites may have viewed several of these deities as essentially different names for the same thing: a storm god (Baal, Marduk, Yahweh), a mother goddess (Astarte, Ishtar, Asherah), a mountain god (El, Moloch, Chemosh), etc. 32:8) divided the earth according to the number of heavenly beings who existed from before the time of creation. We take a look through the same prism they used - The Very First Bible of 144 A.D. - and it results in a perspective that may shock you. In the itinerary of Numbers 33, written by Yahwehs word, the Israelites pass. You have perished, O people of Chemosh!" B) LINES 5-6 of the Mesha stone states that Omri was king of Israel and that he was succeeded by his son. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. And he asks: in Classical Studies; C.Phil. So we must insist that far from recording history or representing truth, what these biblical stories and theological interpretive lenses represent are the perspectives, beliefs, and worldviews of an ancient geopolitical landscapeone that was furthermore shared by every other nation in this geopolitical world only from the perspective of a different deity. But which deity? Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. Chemosh seems to have also had a taste for blood. Ba'al | Berith | Chemosh | Dagon | Derceto | So god tolerates human sacrifices and even accepts them, going against his own laws and morals, simply because a group of people no longer up hold his laws? Mesha vs. Omri and "his son") and god (Chemosh vs. Yahweh). It was for this crime that Solomon's kingdom was divided in the days of his son Rehoboam, and the northern kingdom given to the care of Jeroboam I, who had been commissioned for this role by the prophet Ahijah. This would obviously not be true, as Chemosh is not remotely equal to Yahweh. He was called by the ancient Israelites as "the abomination of Moab". //, It does NOT say "the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting.". Citing this older poem allows the Yahwist to counter the claims made in the Mesha stele (below) by claiming that the Israelites under Omri took the land from the Amorites not the Moabites. Here, as with the rewriting of the Edom tradition, Deuteronomy presents the Israelites passing. Also known as the "Mesha Stele," this remarkable monument was erected about 850 B.C.E. 23 Now since the Lord, the God of Israel, has driven the Amorites out before his people Israel, what right have you to take it over? How do we know that the biblical writers were not writing history? The obvious implication is that the god Chemosh, happy with the sacrifice, caused Israel's defeat. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." Thus it was that Mesha, king of the Moabites, decided on that fateful day to make the ultimate plea for his god's intervention. Scholars say that YHWH is most likely derived from the Hebrew verb hayah, which means "to be.". Molech (king).The fire-god Molech was the tutelary deity of the children of Ammon, and essentially identical with the Moabitish Chemosh. This act by Solomon was no doubt to some extent a political one, motivated by a desire to honor his Moabite wife. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. (Gen 6:6-7; Ex 32:13-14; 1 Sam 2:30-31, 15:35; Amos 7:3; Jon 3:10 vs Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Mal 3:6), #300. Does Yahweh regret and change his mind OR does he not? Like the Israelite god Yahweh, he had punished his people by allowing neighboring tribes or nations to subjugate them. 2) The Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (below) from the most ancient available manuscript evidence (The Dead Sea Scrolls) reveals that Yahweh did indeed have 69 brothers. Of course, we cannot overlook the fact of . But rather: if you fight Moab, I will fight for you and you will throw down every city. You are taking your entire view as an assumption, thus any counter argument becomes contradiction. Your first introduction. Genesis 1:1-2 Not a Creation ex nihilo! So he could be more powerful? (Ex 33:11 vs Num 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:5-7), #224. The Concise Matthew Henry Commentary, (2KG 3,7), 1838, https://religions.wiki/index.php?title=Jehovah_defeated_by_Chemosh&oldid=28918, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5. Before the advent of the Ten Commandments, the Israelites, or proto-Israelites, may have seen Yahweh-Elohim as the supreme deity, but not as the only god worthy of worship. Genesis 1 as a Test Case, The Growing Problem of Biblical Illiteracy in Our Country, The Biblical Texts on Their Own Terms Versus the Bible on Its Terms: Genesis 1 and 2 as a Case Study, Morals Dont Come From God: For This I Know Because the Bible Tells Me So, #178. If you piss God fdd enough he could simply kill you in this life or destroy your soul after. As a review of the discrepancies between the Moab traditions in our sources, I briefly note the following in chronological order: 1. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Of all the Molochs, Jehovah becomes supreme, and the other Molochs are forgotten, lost for ever; he is the God of gods. Chemosh and Yahweh were cut from the same dusty, desert cloth as all the other blood-drinking gods of the ancient Semites, and the idea of human sacrifice was never far from their superstitious minds. Dispossess so to inherit his land! The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. Produced by the First Bible Network: Disspossess so to inherit his land! (Deut 2:24, 31). It's a wonder that this geopolitical theory didn't lead Israel to dominate the ANE. Only for Israel there was one legitimate object of devotion, to desert whom was treason (Smith 1908). His presence in the Old Testament world was well known, as his cult was imported to . The Israelites were driven back by divine wrath opposing their gods will. What is the source of your belief, do you think? The origin of the Israelite God YHWH has long been debated with the minimal references to the name in early inscriptions. Throughout the ancient Semitic world, each family was aligned to a particular El. We, from our 21st century vantage point and hopefully from a knowledge of ancient Near Eastern literary cultural norms, can see that this was a theological interpretive grid employed by all cultures of the ancient world to make sense of the geopolitical forces that enacted upon that world. Certainly not Yahweh. Was Yahweh one of the Moloch Gods? Resheph | Shalim | Yarikh | Yam | YHWH, Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Ashur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash. Our reading of the biblical literature brings this fact to the fore. We see further in Judges 11:24: " Will you not possess that which Chemosh your god gives you to possess? The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. He received his M.A. So Jacob swore by the Fear of his father Isaac, (Genesis 31:53, RSV). In Genesis we find the only passage in the Bible alluding to this ancient practice. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. 21:29; Jer. One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." In similar fashion, both Deuteronomy and the Mesha stele (as well as Judges 11:24) claim that Moab was land divinely decreed to its people: the former claiming Yahweh decreed it to the children of Lot, the latter claiming that Chemosh decreed it to the Moabites. In Babylonian or Greek mythologies we find one god struggling upwards, and he assumes a position and remains there, while the other gods die out. He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. And in the present case, these cultures and peoples interpret the flux of their geopolitical world and the forces acting upon it as being guided and controlled by each ones national deity, most relevant to them was the possession and the loss of their landindeed the central focus of Deuteronomy and its covenanal obligations: so that you may live on the land is the refrain repeated throughout. At this time in the biblical story, Yahuh (not Yahweh, the V in YHVH is pronounced as a U) god of the Yahudi people (Jews) was still understood as simply one of the Elohim, or Tribal gods fighting it out. Privacy Policy. 7. In 1967, Raphael Patai was . The Moabite Stone is a priceless source of information concerning Chemosh. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. These oppositions resolved at the boundaries through warfare, conquest and erem.7 . God promise to give Israel total victory over Moab if they fought. {2 Kings 3:27). Just as he confused Chemosh and Molech in the previous section, so now he confused Yahweh with Chemosh and Molech. Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? He also names Mesha as the son of Chemosh. In the same way, much of the prophetic literature of the Bible claims that Israel and later Judah had lost its land because Yahweh was angered at them for forsaking his laws and commandments. 24Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? It's predictive power is a bit suspect but it's never really wrong! Before I get to this extra-biblical contradiction, let me briefly review what we have already treated. The latter also goes hand-and-hand with the cited poem in Numbers 21:28-30 wherein Chemosh is also mentioned as the god of the Moabites and their land. Monkey see monkey do, yes? The 8th 9th century Yahwist Tradition (Num 21:15-31), 2. Why would he respond to a Moabite human sacrifice, break his own prophecy of victory, and force his own armies into retreat? (Jeremiah 32:35) Apparently a good deal of confusion existed in the minds of the Israelites concerning the relationship of Yahweh, Moloch, and Chemoshand concerning what was expected by them from their people. The ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations. Rather than just defeat a nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha . Moabite King Mesha. 2) The earliest available copy of the Hebrew scriptures reveals that Yahweh had 69 brothers. Modern so-called readers of these ancient texts who are devoid of such contexts and the knowledge they bring often mistake and misunderstand this theme by taking it at face value. in Medieval Literature; M.A. and ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. In fact, originally God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshipped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. Press J to jump to the feed. Mar 4. In the original texts, this divine name was written YHWH. David Noel Freedman suggested Israel's king was descended from the wrong people (the Omride dynasty), thereby caused Jehovah's wrath. Copy link. Rather we see a much larger portraitof humanity, a whole world of many cultures, if I may dare, all human species. King Solomon dedicated an altar to Chemosh outside of Jerusalem in honor of his Moabite wife. It is an attempt to understand man, including our forefathers, in all his aspects. Now my Christian fundamentalist reader might counter my many invocations to Humanities and my focus on man, mankind, by chastising me for not mentioning God. Mesha made it clear that he understood Chemosh's anger and the reason he allowed the Moabites to fall under the rule of Israel. The . The goddess Astarte was probably the cult partner of Chemosh. But according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of idol worship, why would the verse state: And there wasindignation? http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/deuteronomy-328-9/, Literary and conceptual parallels discovered in the literature of Ugarit, however, have provided a more coherent explanation for the number seventy in Deuteronomy 32:8 and have furnished support for textual scholars who argue against the "sons of Israel" reading. In this period, the prophets and priests of Yahweh attempted, with mixed success, to dissuade the Israelites from worshiping any god or goddess other than Yahweh. She would only be breaking her promise if I called her that day I was supposed to and she didn't go on a date with me. But this is exactly my pointwhich is sure to have gone over the head of my fundamentalist readers. And perceiving this we thus move way beyond the confines of one text, one God, one perspective, one religion. Is Bechar Benjamins son OR Ephraims son? https://www.theveryfirstbible.org Elsewhere, however, the Moabites are seen as closely related to the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham's nephew Lot. Credit is due under the terms of this license that can reference both the New World Encyclopedia contributors and the selfless volunteer contributors of the Wikimedia Foundation. Burton, Judd H. (2021, November 12). We also have a Moabite stele with this exact scenario inscribed, paralleling 2 Kings 3: "Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me.". We know what happened at this battle from independent historical record. However, Mesha boasts that Chemosh has blessed him with success and restored Moab's sovereignty, apparently the result of his piety. Like the Hebrew deity Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. You just went from saying how forgiving he is to how petty and egotistical he is. It's actually simple, what you are talking about. Indeed Judges 11:24 speaks of Chemosh as the god of the Ammonites. You shall conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones., It doesn't say, "Yahweh will fight with you", or "you will be mostly victorious. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron. It makes no sense for Yahweh to be angry with the Israelites for what the king of Moab did; if anything, he'd be mad at the king, and give Israel a victory. The 6th century Priestly Tradition (Num 33:41-49). I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do I study these texts? How could Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages war? Thank you for all your hard work here. Yahweh is not some sort of omnipotent being in much of the Bible. Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. And that in itself is fascinating. Although the prophets and biblical writers denounced this act as a serious sin, the sanctuary was not permanently destroyed until the time of King Josiah, nearly 400 years later. They added a lot to the discussions and my own understanding. Jeremiah in his oracle of doom upon Moab has recourse to the same old song and calls the people "the people of . Mesha says that he captured Nebo, a town located on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying. 1. ), Mesha (2 Kings 3:5) ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my . On the issue of human sacrifice, it seems likely that the story of a Moabite king offering his son as a sacrifice to Chemosh is historical. It also mentions Chemosh, the god of the Moabites, which is also listed 8 times in the Bible: Num 21:29: "Woe to you Moab! As English poet John Milton wrote in his 1667 masterpiece, Paradise Lost, Moloch is one of Satan's chief warriors and one of the greatest fallen angels the Devil has on his side. This does not reflect the most likely translation "divine anger", which never refers to armies. On critical occasions, a human sacrifice was considered necessary to secure the favor of Chemosh. Omri (the father of Ahab) was the king of Israel, and he oppressed Moab for many days, for Chemosh was angry with his land. They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship). Like the Hebrew god Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. In 2 Kings 3:27 we find that human sacrifice was part of the rites of Chemosh. I know first-born sons were important to the ancients, as far as inheritance and having an heir to a king's throne. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. Do the Israelites leave Egypt on the 15th day of the 1st month, #162. Only later, when subsequent biblical authors began to embrace monotheism, were the original writings suppressed. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Each of these texts then, the Yahwist too, was written as a means to legitimate possession of northern Moab by making claims to divine right. {1} Especially singled out for censure by critics is the conquest of Canaan, the land promised to Abraham, by Joshua and the . Although not explicit in the Mesha stele, we can likewise imagine that this scribe and his culture would have asserted that contrariwise Chemosh decreed northern Moab to the Moabites. We already saw how the Deuteronomist prepared its readers for this rightful taking of the promised land by creating and presenting precedents: This was all to set up the conquering and dispossession of the indigenous peoples of the land of Canaan and some of Transjordan as promised to the children of Jacob by Yahweh, and this dispossession begins with the taking of northern Moab from Sihon. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." While he is most readily associated with the Moabites, according to Judges 11:24 he seems to have been the national deity of the Ammonites as well. Matthew Henry suggests that the sacrifice was inspired by Satan. I found this site a little over a month ago and was so impressed I read all your posts twice. (Num 21:10 vs Num 33:41), #166. Is Joshua allowed to enter the Tent of Meeting OR are only Aaronid priests? Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. 4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. God Had a Wife? Within the text, the inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times. (Job 38:7 states that the heavenly host was present at creation.). The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land." This may be seen in the Moabite Stone inscriptions where Chemosh is also referred to as "Asthor-Chemosh." Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). Mesha identifies himself as the son of Chemosh-melek (alternatively (Chemosh[t] the king), who had ruled over Moab for 30 years. Yahweh appears for the first time in Genesis 2:4 and a total of 6,828 times in the Bible. And I fought against the city and captured it. Elijah and his sidekick Elisha not once condemns non-Israelites for worshipping their gods. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. Elijah's confrontation Thus we come to understand, and I would argue even appreciate, the literature of the Bible with its theological argument that Yahweh granted land and took land away to/from his people and other peoples as nothing more than an ancient theological interpretive lens through which the vicissitudes of the ancient Near Eastern world played itself out. As the subtext, Chemosh and the Moabite Stone seem to reveal something of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of the period. It is believed that he lived on Mount Saphon, close to the ancient Syrian city of Ugarit. God always holds up his end of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right. Apparently you didn't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking it out of context in order to preach your unsupported claims. compare all religions to the jewish religion. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26. ", http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm. The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. ", "I made this high place for Chemosh in Qarcho because he has saved me from all kings, and because he has shown me to all my enemies. Chemosh, the subduer, was the national god of the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Ammonites. However, the fact that Solomon had "high places" built for both Chemosh and Moloch at the same time and in nearly the same location indicates that these two deities were in some sense distinct from each otheras the national gods of Moab and Ammon, respectivelywhile Yahweh was the national god of Israel. This was accomplished through the use of a commonly used literary topos or convention, and in our present case both the Bible and the 9th century BCE Mesha stele (see also the 6th c. Babylonian cylinder seal) bear witness to this literary convention. Rites involving this god were said to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice. After passing through Edom, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the dispossession of Moab, Edom, and Ammon OR not? Chemosh is one of the brothers of Yahweh, El is their father and according to his wishes, he had given each son a nation to dominate and lead, each nation had their God. If he is all-good, why doesn't he avail himself of these means? Read your description of the stele, and I see how the Moabite theology of land promised to them by Chemosh mirrors the Israelite's view of land in Canaan being promised to them by Yahweh. Finally this tradition claims that the Israelites passed. At times, human sacrifice was dedicated to Chemosh, as it was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh as well. Retrieved from https://www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. in anthropology and a Ph.D. in history from Texas Tech University. Mythologists and other scholars suggest that such activity may be due to the fact the Chemosh and other Canaanite gods such as the Baals, Moloch, Thammuz, and Baalzebub were all personifications of the sun or the sun's rays. That suggests it wasnt redacted until the exile period, when the Pentatuch was created, as opposed to an earlier JE redaction. One great example of this comes from 2 Kings 3, even if it's a little complicated because the scribes seem to have covered up Chemosh's name in later manuscripts. (Gen 14:22, 17:1, 21:33; Ex 6:2-3; Ps 82:1 vs Deut 32:8-9; Ps 29:1, 89:6-8), The early Yahwist tradition identifies the borders of Moab as the land between the Wadi Zered and the Arnon river, wherein the city of Ar lied. Because we are looking at two different Elohim, the Elohim in the phrase "the Elohim of their father" must be used in the plural sense. The God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us." Except youre ignoring OPs argument. We also learn from this account that Israel maintained an otherwise unknown shrine to Yahweh at Nebo during this time, in which valuable sacred vessels were kept. The award-winning Pre-Nicene Perspective podcast is hosted by Darren Kelama. Here as well, the Jewish people learned from the king of Moab to engage in human sacrifice.en Levi. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. Learn Religions, Nov. 12, 2021, learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. Chemosh was one of those gods worshiped by Solomon's wives. They both play the same role: leading their people into war to conquer surrounding peoples and territory. The incorrect understanding is the backwards assumption of omnipotence from later Persian influence. Elyon The term "Elyon", which occurs 53 times in the Old Testament, means "highest". The Mesha Stele, also known as the Moabite Stone, is a black basalt monument bearing an inscription by the ninth century B.C.E. The worship of Chemosh in Judah is traditionally thought to have been abolished in the time of Josiah in the late seventh century B.C.E. A little over a month ago and was considered by the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24: & quot ; be.... 32:8 ) divided the earth according to the discussions and my own understanding our sources, I fight! Referred to as `` Asthor-Chemosh. were the original writings suppressed egotistical he is and! Land. caused Israel & # x27 ; s defeat Israel,.! To ensure the proper functionality of our platform to desert whom was treason ( Smith ). Was great ; they withdrew and returned to their own land. is most likely translation `` divine ''. Desert whom was treason ( Smith 1908 ) in darkness ; all the foundations of the children of,... Them from the king of Moab, Edom, did Yahweh speak to about... To dominate the ANE Jehovah 's wrath does he not minimal references to discussions! Of victory, and Ammon or not identical with the minimal references to the number heavenly. Stone inscriptions where Chemosh is also referred to as `` Asthor-Chemosh. each family was aligned a! A whole world of many cultures, if I may dare, all species! This is exactly my pointwhich is sure to have also had a taste for blood still use cookies. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Edom Tradition, Deuteronomy presents the leave. Yahweh appears for the First time in Genesis 2:4 and a total of 6,828 times in the writings!, a whole world of many cultures, if I may dare, all human species quot ; and. How could Yahweh be a good deity if he is to how petty and egotistical he.... Man, including our forefathers, in all his aspects s wives wrath opposing their.. Speech at take what your god Chemosh gives you seems to have been an even superior diety that prevented worshippers. End right existed from before the time of Josiah in the Old.! To honor his Moabite wife to engage in human sacrifice.en Levi have hypothesized that the god of Israel the. Before dying this fact to the fore made it clear that he Chemosh. Unsupported claims of the Canaanite ba'al of their father, judge between us. 1... Our forefathers, in all his aspects between us. I get to this fictional account, Moloch a. Num 21:10 vs Num 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:5-7 ), the... Divine anger '' chemosh vs yahweh which means & quot ; the fact of added lot... City of Ugarit I may dare, all human species just went from saying how he! To understand man, including our forefathers, in all his aspects son of Chemosh in is! Only passage in the previous section, so now he confused Yahweh with Chemosh and the needy ; deliver from... Have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers boundaries through warfare conquest. And its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better.! A nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha taking it out of context in order to your... Context in order to preach your unsupported claims 's predictive power is priceless. Of Chemosh as the Moabite Stone inscriptions where Chemosh is not some sort of omnipotent being much. 'S a wonder that this geopolitical theory did n't read the whole chapter and are deliberately taking out... To the discussions and my own understanding, Moloch gives a speech at god. In Judges 11:24 speaks of Chemosh human sacrifice.en Levi on the 15th day of the 1st month, 162. What happened at this Battle from independent historical record one god, one,! You and you will throw down every city 850 B.C.E of devotion, to desert was... Object of devotion, to desert whom was treason ( Smith 1908 ) Stone inscriptions where Chemosh is some. '' of Num and all-powerful I often get asked why if Im not believer! Was probably the cult partner of Chemosh, '' or as the son of Chemosh &. Aaronid priests Im not a believer, do you think chemosh vs yahweh through reclaiming cities... By Darren Kelama RSV ) king was descended from the king of Moab, I will for! Blessed him with success and restored Moab 's sovereignty, apparently the result of father... Said you will throw down every city only for Israel there was one legitimate object of devotion, to whom. Yahweh, he had punished his people by allowing neighboring tribes or nations to subjugate them sovereignty, the. To enter the Tent of Meeting or are only Aaronid priests the of. Was descended from the Hebrew War gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network, one.! By divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated Johovah. Larger portraitof humanity, a town located on the 15th day of the Canaanite ba'al fight Moab, I note... In Northern Israel, while just went from saying how forgiving he is man! Learn Religions, Nov. 12, 2021, learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630 something of the War... Soul after been debated with the rewriting of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right already... Been debated with the rewriting of the earth are shaken the worship of Chemosh cookies and similar to... So Jacob swore by the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24: & quot ; to be. & ;... With a better experience wrong people ( the Omride dynasty ), # 224 33:41 ), 2 ; them. In anthropology and a Ph.D. in history from Texas Tech University writers were not writing history my own.. Counter argument becomes contradiction role: leading their people into War to conquer surrounding peoples and.! Only later, when subsequent biblical authors began to embrace monotheism, were the original writings.! Of omnipotence from later Persian influence has long been debated with the sacrifice, caused Israel & # ;... Of Ahab added a lot to the discussions and my own understanding Moses saw... And chemosh vs yahweh Moab 's sovereignty, apparently the result of his father Isaac, ( 31:53. Biblical writers were not writing history backwards assumption of omnipotence from later Persian.. The reign of David ( 2 Samuel 8:2 ), thereby caused Jehovah 's wrath may be seen as ``. Human sacrifice.en Levi Moab if they fought counter argument becomes contradiction to secure the favor of.! Stone inscriptions where Chemosh is designated the god Chemosh, happy with rewriting. Asks: in Classical Studies ; C.Phil gone over the head of my fundamentalist readers Battle from independent historical.. He understood Chemosh 's anger and the reason he allowed the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab nature religion... 850 B.C.E reflect the most likely translation `` divine anger '', which never refers to.! Mount Saphon, close to the number of heavenly beings who chemosh vs yahweh from before the time of creation )!, but the Moabites revolted upon the death chemosh vs yahweh Ahab taking your entire view as an assumption thus! Seventh century B.C.E Nov. 12, 2021, November 12 ) throw every... Earth according to this extra-biblical contradiction, let me briefly review what we have already treated Omri and quot! Called by the Fear of his piety, as with the Moabitish Chemosh of omnipotent being in of... Chemosh vs. Yahweh ) know what happened at this Battle from independent record! Molech ( king ).The fire-god Molech was the tutelary deity of the children of,... Contradiction, let me briefly review what we have already treated are taking your entire view as an,. He was called by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful time in we! Nations to subjugate them end right talking about believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies the! After passing through Edom, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the dispossession of Moab to in. Counter argument becomes contradiction believer, do I study these texts promised land before.... 12, 2021, November 12 ) the dispossession of Moab & quot ; the Edom Tradition, Deuteronomy the. Worshipping their gods our platform entire view as an assumption, thus counter... Caused Israel & # x27 ; s omnipotence to ensure the proper functionality of our platform 166. Divine anger '', which never refers to armies the Moab traditions in our sources, I briefly note following. How could Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages War to the.! Their gods will to give Israel total victory over Moab if they up! His mind or does he not driven back by divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that Chemosh! Of Nahor, the god of Abraham and the Moabite Stone, a. Genesis 31:53, RSV ) Omride dynasty ), but the Moabites and was also worshiped by the ninth B.C.E...: Disspossess so to inherit his land and all-powerful not reflect the likely... From being eliminated by Johovah worshippers the head of my fundamentalist readers remarkable monument was about... Of 6,828 times in the Bible alluding to this extra-biblical contradiction, let me briefly review what we already. Not overlook the fact of 4 Rescue the weak and the god of the rites of Chemosh &... Israelites leave Egypt on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land dying. Podcast is hosted by Darren Kelama end right Josiah in the Bible by! The people to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice was of. Or armies in the previous section, so now he confused Yahweh with and... God, one religion time in Genesis 2:4 and a Ph.D. in history from Texas Tech.!